The builder responds to my letter...but I still have TOTAL faith in the Wharram designs!
As expected, by publishing the letter on the blog it solicited an immediate response from Raoul. Whether he would have responded eventually to my email I don’t know but that is irrelevant now.
The outcome was as expected...no cooperation but a threat. Nonetheless I thought that it was fair to ask him the relevant questions particularly about the modification of the beams. As he is not prepared to cooperate on helping with this but instead chooses to threaten me I guess that we will just have to assess the beams ourselves and decide whether to build new ones.
As I said in the heading, I have total confidence in the Wharram designs and I would rather go to sea in a well built Wharram than a modern cat of the same size PROVIDED the key structural areas are built as per the spec’s.
I have posted Raouls replies, unedited, and my response which will be the end of this matter as I am obviously wasting my time seeking any support from the builder. I will now just get on and fix it and post the progress on this blog.
First response from Raoul received at 10.31pm Tuesday Aug 19th New Zealand time.
Dear Warren ,
As I said once , Wharram cats are not designed and don’t comply to any international recognized standard , such as ISO or similar .
It is then impossible to properly perform a Survey of these vessels , as there are no reference points .
As I said once , the construction with beams , ropes and locating pins , is not foreseen by any internationally recognized Notified Body or standard .
No Class is applicable either .
These boats are floating and sailing around the world , based on empirical experience .
We tried to build as good as we could , without data , and based on experience .
A normal RB boat can be surveyed and surely will pass , as the structure is built accordingly to the ISO 12215 for small boats or other rules .
You decided to remove the Tiki 38 before the completion and to make void the boatbuilding agreement . Your choice , and about the losses that you had to suffer , unfortunately are a consequence of that choice .
I don’t believe the Tiki 38 is a right choice for you ; I don’t think can carry the weight you are planning to load aboard ; I don’t trust hinges in rope as they are absurd in the modern world where the bronze and stainless are commonly available , I don’t think a sailing plan without booms will be efficient on a cat , I don’t think the Tiki 38 rig made in aluminium pipes makes any sense in the modern world where aluminium masts are commonly available .
My suggestion is to complete the boat ( if your new Builder can hold the pressure ) and perform some tests , then modify , adding reinforces here and there , in order to have a working boat ; time will say if your boat is reliable ;
Step to step , sail around the gulf and don’t expect to cross an ocean on that boat the first day . Slowly slowly build up some experience and listen to somebody ( this is the hardest part ) more experienced and as I said , after few attempts eventually will work .
If you don’t like , find a more reliable design and build another vessel .
Regards
Raoul
Second response received at 10.38pm Tuesday Aug 19th New Zealand time.
Dear Warren
I think mr Allan answered to you already .
Your boat and the first Tiki 38 are built , in my opinion , properly , considering that these boats cannot be certified , as the design is not following any recognized rule , as far as I know .
You picked up the boat from RB yard , in condition of " where is as it is "
And you agreed and requested the delivery . You signed an agreement indicating that you would not have done any bad promotion , and you are doing or trying to do this right now , trying to black mail me in change of money .
If I read one more word in your blog containing defamations and an attempt of extortion , I will report to the Police and your next trip to Thailand will be an unforgettable one .
Regards,
Raoul
My emailed response to Raoul.
Raoul,
I have not heard from Allan
The reason I contacted you was to bring to your attention serious deficiencies due to not building critical components of my boat as per spec. These deficiencies would have made it unseaworthy. I asked you two very simple questions.
One was for the details of the changes you made to the beams from the specifications and two if you are prepared to meet the cost of rectifying the deficiencies.
Instead of providing the information which I requested and answering if you are prepared to meet the cost of bringing that part of the boat back to spec you respond with a serious threat. A request like this is hardly extortion. I did not make any threat to you or attempt to extort you. All I wanted was a yes or no. If you had answered yes, then well and good. If your answer was no, then it would be up to me if I wanted to consider legal action.
That is the way normal business people go about their business.
Never mind, you have said no, so that’s fine.
I do not appreciate your threat. You are welcome to do what you want to do. I feel quite comfortable as I have some significant influence in Bangkok at the highest levels.
I have done nothing but publish truthful things. I am well aware of Thai law and I have not breached it.
Just for the record Raoul, in New Zealand we don’t have a nice little calm gulf like you do. And, when it comes to open ocean time I have more than my share of experience having been a commercial fishing boat operator off the coast of New Zealand for many years. Also in other parts of the world.
Anyway, you have made it clear that you are not prepared to cooperate in this matter so I do not intend wasting my time communicating with you any further. I will get on with the completion of ‘Natural High’, I will sail it to Tahiti and enjoy many days exploring the islands.
I am not going to address your comments about certifications etc, etc. I think that Wharram cats have well proven their sea-worthiness over some decades. If you feel otherwise maybe you could do an article about this on your blog and compare the Wharrams with any successful ocean crossings that may have been completed by your RB35. (Real ocean crossings at higher latitudes)
If you read my other blog on health you will know that I never wish anyone ill will even if I feel they have wronged me. The same applies to you Raoul. I hope that the time will come for the benefit of both you and others that you will contemplate the way that you treat others and perhaps make some life changes.
Good luck,
Warren
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 02:21PM
Reader Comments (4)
I also have complete confidence in Wharram's designs, but I do have misgivings about the integrity of his designs once they are modified, particularly by parties who do not share Wharram's philosophy. I did express these concerns once on Creed's blog only to be howled down by him during the early stages of his build.
If I were looking for a fast, seaworthy, load carrying cruising catamaran I would seriously look at this one http://www.berckemeyer-yacht.de/yachts/dash_39. I would build it using a high quality marine ply such as Hoop Pine encased in epoxied glass, no fancy strip planking, just a simple, strong medium that can be easily repaired in remote locations.
I love Wharram's but I do think they have their limits when it comes to load carrying capacity unlike Berckemeyer's "Dash" which may have suited you better given your plans and expectations.
Perhaps the new owner of Creed's boat should consider investing in this product, I think I would if I were them. http://www.turtlepac.com/floatation.htm
Good luck with your project, I will continue to follow your blog with interest.
Hi Roger,
Thanks for these comments. That was a smart looking boat that you gave the link for and obviously very fast. However, I really like the traditional style of the Wharrams, and I am committed to completing it.
I agree that the integrity of the Wharram design could become suspect if they are modified. However, apart from internal layout and the strip planking hull I am not modifying anything else of significant other than the cockpit area.
I had assumed that the beams and troughs were as per the Wharram design and now I find that out that they are not I will be putting it back to spec...so, all should be well...its just become very expensive.
I intend to run my 'fix' by Wharrams just to ensure that they are also happy with it.
With regard to weight, I have carefully calculated everything in this area. By using electric motors, high tech lithium ion batteries and a water maker the weight of the total gear and supplies on the boat will be no more than a normal Wharram. This is because I will be able to carry less water and less fuel than most.
Other than the delivery trip to Tahiti I don't intend spending long periods of time on the boat...probably 10 - 14 days at a time with only 2 people. If I like it I will probably build a T46 and take the T38 to the Phillipines and leave that there and keep the new T46 in Tahiti so I can cover the best seasons in both hemispheres.
Sorry, wrong link! meant this one http://www.turtlepac.com/yachtkit.htm
Roger
Thanks Roger...that's good because I was looking for something like this as insurance.